Showing posts with label carbon tax. Show all posts
Showing posts with label carbon tax. Show all posts

Thursday, December 8, 2016

Australian Government killed emissions scheme despite knowing it could shave $15 billion off electricity bills

The Australian government seems to be copping a lot of bad press over their failed energy policies, backflipping on a rare attempt at common sense on carbon pricing earlier this week and now being asked to explain why they are keeping energy prices artificially high.

* Australian Government To Reintroduce Carbon Pricing ?
* Australian Government killed emissions scheme despite knowing it could shave $15 billion off electricity bills

Sunday, October 28, 2012

Brother can you spare $3.10 for a tonne of carbon dioxide?

In which Robin Johnson's Economics Web Page laments the homelessness and begging now seen each day on Lambton Quay in Wellington. And a lament for both the downward spiral of the NZ Emissions Trading Scheme and the downward spiral of the New Zealand spot price for a tonne of carbon dioxide - now less than the cost of a flat white. Brother, can you spare $NZ3.10 for a tonne of carbon dioxide?


The other day I looked up the old Tin Pan Alley song "Brother can you spare a dime?" The experience of poverty and the Depression in America summed up in a popular song. The lyrics were written by Yip Harburg in 1931, and the music was composed by Jay Gorney. The version by Al Jolson is very well known, but I like this version by Charlie Palloy and his Orchestra.

I looked up "Brother can you spare a dime?" as I was thinking about homelessness and poverty in New Zealand. I am not the only one. Churchs, charities, politicians, experts and academics are also concerned about poverty in New Zealand.

I see homelessness and poverty every weekday in Wellington's main CBD thoroughfare, Lambton Quay. I walk along Lambton Quay looking forward to the first coffee of the day. I usually note how many people are begging. There are almost always a few people begging on Lambton Quay. 'Brother can you spare a dime' is alive and well even on Lambton Quay.

Except it's sad cardboard signs saying 'Homeless and need help'. Also its at least $3 to $4 for a coffee.

The other price thats less than the cost of a flat white is the spot price of carbon dioxide in NZ. The carbon trader OMF reports NZ spot prices each day at CommTrade Carbon. Guess what? On 17 October, the day Parliament's Finance and Expenditure Select Committee reported on the latest amendments to the NZETS, the last trade of a New Zealand Unit ('NZU', a tonne of carbon dioxide) was at $3.10.

OMF also display a chart. It shows the collapse of the international carbon price reflected in our own plucky little battler NZETS. It certainly looks pear-shaped.

As the political philosopher Simon Caney and economist Cameron Hepburn note with a little British understatement, when the demand for permits falls to the extent that the permit price approaches zero, it is difficult to conclude that an ETS is working to reduce emissions.

Can any sane person look at this chart and reach any other conclusion than the NZETS has completely failed as a carbon price policy incentivising reduction in GHG emissions?

OMF originally committed the chart sin of not starting the vertical (price) axis at $0. However, reality has intruded. As the New Zealand Unit (NZU) price has relentlessly declined towards $0, they keep having to move the bottom of their chart closer to zero. That would almost be a small bit of humour in a pretty sad story. If it wasn't the empirical evidence of the failure of the design of the NZETS as a policy to price greenhouse gas emissions.

If the $3.10/tonne NZU price is the death notice of the NZETS, the funeral must be the latest Finance and Expenditure Select Committee process to amend the NZETS. On 17 October 2012, this committee released its report Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading and Other Matters) Amendment Bill

This is the National Government's bill to further weaken the NZ Emissions Trading Scheme. You know, indefinitely delay the entry of agriculture, make the half-price "two-for-one" transition permanent.

If you can quickly recover your will to live after digesting page after page of bureaucratic and political policy denial and excuse-making, and the complete failure of the National Government majority to engage at all with the minority political parties or submitters or ENGOs or the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, download and read the 117-page report.

Otherwise, just read Patrick Smellie's report "No restrictions on foreign-sourced carbon credits confirmed"

"The Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading and Other Matters) Bill was reported back to parliament by the finance and expenditure select committee with only technical amendments, and a decision that capping the use of foreign credits would compromise the emissions trading scheme principle of "least cost of compliance".
The policy has seen major emitters such as oil and electricity companies snap up some of the lowest cost carbon units available on global markets, where prices have slumped to as little as $2 a tonne.
New Zealand Units, issued by the government, continue to be worth slightly more, at around $3 a tonne, but well below the $25 a tonne maximum price put on carbon when the ETS was introduced in 2009."

Or just read the press release from WWF-New Zealand.

This is another nail in the coffin for New Zealand's credibility on climate change and suggests the government has no intention of trying to set this country's emissions on a downward path. Other parties in the UN climate talks will rightly see New Zealand's claims to be doing something to reduce emissions as all spin and no substance."

What a complete shambles! Why didn't we just have a no-exceptions carbon tax in the first place?

They used to tell me I was building a dream,
and so I followed the mob,
When there was earth to plow, or guns to bear,
I was always there right on the job.
They used to tell me I was building a dream,
with peace and glory ahead,
Why should I be standing in line, just waiting for bread?

Once I built a railroad, I made it run, made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad; now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime?
Once I built a tower, up to the sun, brick, and rivet, and lime;
Once I built a tower, now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime?

Once in khaki suits, gee we looked swell,
Full of that Yankee Doodly Dum,
Half a million boots went slogging through Hell,
And I was the kid with the drum!

Say, don't you remember, they called me Al; it was Al all the time.
Why don't you remember, I'm your pal? Buddy, can you spare a dime?

Tuesday, November 8, 2011

Oz Carbon Tax Passes Senate


The Australian "Carbon Tax" has been passed in the Senate and will become law. It remains to be seen if Tony Abbott, should he get elected, follows through with his hubristic and dogmatic threats of repealing the law.


The Greens are understandably pleased.

Mining interests and The Australian have predicted this will trigger the imminent demise of the entire Australian economy, even though the more likely threat is due to financial problems in Europe. Piers Akerman (hat tip Deltoid) dredges up the old Dark Ages analogy to describe the horror that is about to befall us all at the hands of  the "Green Cultists" who, for some unexplained reason want to rain doom on us all.

I guess we all have our own favourite falling sky to fret over... 
Finally, carbon tax becomes law
The Age, Nov 8.
The Labor government has finally got its carbon price plan through the Senate — on a vote of 36 to 32.

The carbon price begins with a tax, starting next July and will move later to a trading scheme. The issue has dogged Labor, contributing to Kevin Rudd’s fall from the leadership, after he backed off on his emission trading scheme, delaying it when he could not get it through the Senate.


‘‘The Gillard government has today secured a clean energy future for all Australians,’’ Ms Gillard said.


The carbon victory comes as Labor was heartened by an improvement in today’s Newspoll, with the ALP primary vote rising from 29 per cent to 32 per cent.

Supporters of the carbon scheme celebrated out of the Parliament, undeterred by torrential rain. 

Carbon facts: how the package will roll out

The Age, Nov 8.
How the clean-energy package will roll out:

Carbon emissions tax for the 500 biggest polluters starts on July 1, 2012.
Tax moves to an emissions trading scheme in 2015.
Tax begins at a fixed price of $23 a tonne and rise by 2.5 per cent a year until 2015.
Tax will not apply to agricultural emissions or light on-road vehicles.
Electricity generation, stationary energy, some business transport, waste, industrial processes and fugitive emissions will be covered by the initial tax.


Average households will see a $9.90 weekly cost rise.
Average households will receive assistance of $10.10 weekly.
Free carbon permits will be the given to the most emissions-intensive and trade-exposed industries.
The government wants to cut pollution by 80 per cent by 2050.
There are many tired phrases used by grumpy old men, and Piers hackneyed use of "The Dark Ages" should prompt the question, exactly how dark where they? Well, not much really. 


Wikipedia suggests that this period of Western Culture was just a bit obscure to the scholars of the Renaissance - many of whom glorified Rome. So if you love empires, wars and conquests then I guess the relative peace in Western Europe during this time (at least until the Crusades) means yes it was "dark". The Byzantine and Islamic cultures on the other hand had a mostly rip roaring "dark ages" of a time.

UPDATE

 Markets Live: Stocks lose $37b on Italy fears

Those clever evil Greens... at must be their doing.

Wednesday, August 31, 2011

Queensland to be left in the dark ?

The Brisbane Times has an article on possible electricity shortages emerging in Queensland - Queensland to be left in the dark.
Warnings that Queensland could experience power shortages in two years proved the need for a carbon tax, according to the Climate Institute. But the state government and energy provider Origin have denied the state is at risk of power shortages as argued by the Australian Energy Market Operator.

Its Electricity Statement of Opportunities report found Queensland would be the first jurisdiction in Australia to experience shortages if it failed to attract more investment in power stations.

Climate Institute CEO John Connor said the report warned uncertainty over the carbon tax could deter or distort energy investments costing electricity consumers up to $5 billion in higher bills.

"It's clear that the best possible outcome for electricity consumers is decisive action from our politicians to cut our carbon emissions by putting a price on carbon," Mr Connor said. "Without a pollution price and the clarity of the renewable energy target, investors will try and second guess government policy, make inefficient decisions or delay investment and this will increase electricity costs. A pollution price will be a green light for the electricity sector to get on with the job of building the infrastructure needed to provide clean energy power for Australians." ...

Energy Minister Stephen Robertson also said Queensland was "well placed" to have the electricity generating capacity to meet the energy demands of a fast-growing state. ...

“These include ERM Power Ltd’s 500 megawatt Braemar 3 gas power station, Origin Energy’s 500 megawatt Darling Downs Stage 2 gas-fired project and the 44 megawatt solar thermal project at the Kogan Creek power station.’’

Friday, July 15, 2011

Trans Tasman ETS Challenge

Or the ACT as seen from NZ, a guest post from Robin Johnsons EWP making some comparisons between the New Zealand scheme and the proposed Australian Carbon Tax (ACT).


Securing a Clean Energy Future - how comprehensive?


I have to admit I recently rushed to conclude that the Australian carbon pricing scheme would be a "leapfrog" ahead of the NZ Emissions Trading Scheme (NZ ETS). Okay, I admit I generally think the NZ ETS is worse than nothing as a policy to reduce GHG emissions. So the Australian scheme must be more effective. So I have leapt to a conclusion without doing the number crunching.

Now I have actually read Julia Gillard's carbon pricing proposal and can offer a slightly more considered opinion.

The carbon price scheme has a name and obligatory website; Securing a Clean Energy Future. The full document is Securing a Clean Energy Future, The Australian Government's Climate Change Plan, Commonwealth of Australia 2011, ISBN 978-0-642-74723-5.

First of all, the 'Clean Energy Future' is not a carbon tax. It is a cap and trade emissions trading scheme with a safety valve. Page 25 says "Large polluters will report on their emissions and buy and surrender to the Government a carbon permit for every tonne of carbon pollution they produce." That's very much an emissions trading approach, but with a fixed carbon price for three years. The price is A$23 per tonne from 1 July 2012, then A$24.15 in 2013-14 and $AU25.40 2014-15 (p 26). From 1 July 2015, the carbon price will float within and upper and lower ceiling with the Government setting an overall 'Cap' or limit on GHGs (p 27).

The GHGs covered are; carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide and perfluorocarbon emissions from the aluminium sector (p 28).

There will be 500 sources of emissions, which will be companies or sites with direct greenhouse gas emissions of 25,000 tonnes of CO2-e a year or more, Sectors covered will be; stationary energy, waste, rail, domestic aviation and shipping, industrial processes and fugitive emissions (p 27).

But not farming or land transport fuels.

So how comprehensive is 'Clean Energy Future'? To me, the comprehensiveness of a carbon tax or an emissions trading scheme is a good metric of likely efectiveness. And its a metric to use to make comparisons between policies.

Lets say the comprehensiveness is the proportion of total GHGs emitted that is either taxed or included in an emissions trading scheme. 'Clean Energy Future' claims half to two-thirds. The report states that more than half of Australia's GHG emissions will be directly covered by the scheme, and almost two-thirds of GHGs will be included when other measures are included.

'Clean Energy Future' includes an appendix of forecast revenues. In the year to 30 June 2013, the 'Clean Energy Future' scheme will earn A$ 7.74 billion (Appendix C, p 131). At the fixed price of A$ 23 per tonne, that gives 337 million tonnes of GHG (by CO2-e) that is taxed or priced. Thats 60% of Australia's 2009 GHG emissions (565 million tonnes) priced in 2013. That seems not a bad start, given that Geoff Bertram and Simon Terry have calculated that the NZ ETS, after free allocation, delayed start dates, only prices 3%, (12 million tonnes out of 378 million tonnes) of New Zealands GHG emissions between 2008 and 2012 (Bertram and Terry 2010, The Carbon Challenge, p 111).

But is there any free allocation of carbon permits to emitters in the 'Clean Energy Future' scheme? Yes, if you look carefully there is.

The revenue forecast in Appendix C lists costs of A$ 2.85 billion for "Jobs and competitiveness program" and A$ 1 billion for "Energy security".
Table 15 on page 114 notes that "Jobs and competitiveness" invloves the free "allocation of permits ...to new and existing entities undertaking an eligible emissions-intensive trade-exposed (EITE) activity". Table 16 Energy Security p 116 indicates that "Energy security" involves "allocation of permits and cash estimated at $5.5 billion over six years to assist highly emissions-intensive coal-fired generators" and "payments for the closure of around 2,000 megawatts of very highly
emissions-intensive coal-fired generation capacity by 2020".

So of the A$ 7.7 billion collected from the 500 emitters in 2012-2013, possibly some A$ 3.85 billion will be rebated to the dirtiest and most carbon-intense emitters, as long as they are trade-exposed. The definition of emissions-intensive-trade-exposed isn't exactly tied down and has a number of parts. One is being imports or exports as greater than 10% of production. Also, rather like the NZ ETS, any assistance to emitters will phase out at a very gradual 1.3% a year (Table 15, p 114).

Lets assume that 100% of these two categories is spent on free allocation of permits or is just given as a subsidy to some of the 500 emitters. If we have 337 million tonnes of GHG emissions (by CO2-e) that is priced, and subtract 167 million tonnes for the gifting and assistance ( A$ 3.85 billion divided by $23AU = 167 mt) we get 169 million net tonnes of GHG emissions priced in 2013 under the 'Clean Energy Future' scheme. Thats 30% of 2009 GHG emissions of 565 million tonnes.

Okay, I am comparing 2013 for the 'Clean Energy Future' scheme with 2008-2012 for the NZ ETS, but a minimum of 30% coverage of GHG emissions beats 3% of GHG emissions hands down. The 'Clean Energy Future' scheme is more comprehensive than the NZ ETS by a factor of 10. 30% of GHG emissions priced vs 3% priced. That certainly is a big "leap frog" ahead by our trans-tasman cousins, I would say.

Monday, July 11, 2011

Its the future with no polluter

Given the recent news that former Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia Bernie Fraser will be the inaugural chairman of the soon to be established Climate Change Authority (CCA), I proffer the above tag line for the official motto1.



Bernie Fraser to head climate change authority
SUN 10 JULY 2011
Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and Treasurer, Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency

The Gillard Government is pleased to announce that it intends to appoint the former Reserve Bank Governor and former Treasury Secretary Bernie Fraser as Chairman of the new Climate Change Authority (CCA).

The CCA is to be established by legislation as an independent body to provide expert advice on key aspects of the carbon pricing mechanism.

When the carbon pricing mechanism moves to a flexible price emissions trading scheme, the Government will put annual caps on the amount of carbon pollution that can be released into the atmosphere by entities covered by the carbon price.

The CCA will play an important role in the governance of the carbon pricing mechanism.

One of the CCA’s responsibilities will be to make recommendations to the Government on future pollution caps under the carbon pricing mechanism.

These recommendations will have regard to, among other matters:

• the Government’s announced medium and long-term carbon pollution targets;

• progress towards emissions reductions;

• the impact of its recommendations on the Australian economy, including on specific industries.

The Government will make final decisions on these pollution caps, based on the recommendations of the CCA.

The CCA will also provide advice on the performance of the carbon price and other climate change initiatives and will track progress towards Australia’s pollution reduction targets.

It will conduct regular public reviews and its reports will be made public.
The headline at The Age is,
$15 billion in tax cuts for low and middle income earners under carbon deal
Phillip Coorey
July 10, 2011 - 6:39PM

Low and middle-income families and singles pensioners and other welfare recipients are the biggest winners from the carbon price while those on generous incomes will bear almost the full brunt with next-to-no assistance.

Unveiled at midday today by the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, a package of $15 billion in tax cuts and increased benefits mean 4 million households will receive more in compensation that the carbon tax will add to their cost of living.

A further 2 million households will be no worse off by being fully compensated, while another 2 million will receive something.

Of the nation's 8.8 million households, only 700,000 receive nothing.

The scheme will operate as a fixed carbon price of $23 from July 1 next year, and move to a full emissions trading scheme on July 1, 2015, when the market will set the carbon price.

It excludes petrol and is not revenue neutral as first forecast. It will cost the budget $4.2 billion over four years and will erode the forecast $3.5 billion return to surplus in 2012-13 by $530 million.
It's fairly obvious how the Opposition/News Co. is probably going to play this. It will be some variation of economic doomsday-ism rolled up with "the politics of envy" style rhetoric coupled with a frenetic whisking up of the "green socialist agenda" - when The Greens aren't being compared to Fascists, that is.

As Crikey writes, like all such deals, its a compromise. Maybe not the best compromise but it hopefully breaks the inertia and resistance created by the climate denial spin machine.
Carbon tax: the policy and the politics
by Bernard Keane

This is a better package than the CPRS it is so closely modelled on, but not by a lot.

The key problem with the CPRS was that compensation for emissions intensive industries was so great and went for so long that it neutered the price signal...

The same levels of assistance will apply to big polluters again, but this time the Productivity Commission will be on the case to review whether the assistance is justified and there’s an in-built bias toward reduction in assistance to the levels proposed by Ross Garnaut in his updated report if the PC agrees. But big polluters have a guarantee that their assistance won’t be cut until at least 2018, although the PC can start its 2014-15 review early if it believes there are industries making windfall gains from compensation. Which, of course, they will be.

There will also be an independent body to examine the case for accelerating Australia’s laughably unambitious target of 5% by 2020. The Climate Change Authority could become a potent independent source of advice that will pressure future governments inclined to recalcitrance in the key issue of how quickly we proceed with decarbonising the economy.

So two independent sources of pressure on future governments to improve this scheme in its two critical features: how much the price signal is neutered by compensation, and how fast we should be reducing emissions.

The other key advantage over the CPRS is the use of tax cuts aimed at addressing EMTRs for low-income earners. This isn’t merely sensible policy, it’s actually consistent with the government’s own reform efforts so far under Julia Gillard, aimed at increasing workforce participation.
This tax break for 'working families' my also function as a 'pre-emptive' stimulus - given the direction of oil prices and signs that the US and Europe may be in for another bout of GFC.
The bad news is some of the worst polluters will get even more than they got under the CPRS. The coal industry will get a staggering $1.2 billion in handouts, in an outrageous cave-in to the industry that is responsible, more than any other, for Australia’s contribution to global warming. Compensating the coal industry for a carbon price is like compensating the local drug dealer for a crime crackdown.

So how does it stack up against the criteria Crikey suggested last week? Will it be seen as a serious contribution to the cause of an international agreement on climate change? Yes.

This is about as voter-friendly a package as you can get while still doing something about climate change. With tax cuts for low income earners, generous overcompensation for pensions recipients and handouts to rentseekers to mute claims of job losses, the package minimises the potential for scare campaigns and special pleading.

As we all know, this government is so inept it’s likely to botch the selling of the package and leave people convinced they’ll be ruined by it.

Still, by targeting assistance at the steel industry, the coal industry and the coal-reliant electricity sector, Labor is keeping one eye on its heartland, even if it will have trouble with the road transport industry (which is still getting a good deal under road pricing arrangements). The government wants to extend a carbon price to heavy vehicles in 2014 but this has not been agreed by the Multi-Party Committee on Climate Change (read, the independents).

And the package relies far more heavily than the CPRS did on tax cuts to deliver compensation, giving the government a potent selling point — two, actually, because the lift in the tax-free threshold will be over two years.
There are some very generous concessions.
Big polluters get $9.2b assistance
Business Age, 10th July

The federal government will provide $9.2 billion in assistance to support jobs and industries affected by the introduction of a carbon price.

The government released its long-awaited carbon price package on today, announcing an initial $23 carbon price that will be paid by around 500 big top polluters.

Over the first three years $9.2 billion of the revenue raised will be used for assistance by way of free carbon permits to manufacturers that generate over 80 per cent of emissions.

For manufacturing industries like aluminium smelting, steel making, flat glass making, zinc smelting, and most pulp and paper manufacturers, they will receive 94.5 per cent of industry average carbon costs.

Lower polluters, such as plastics and chemical manufacturing, tissue paper manufacturing and ethanol production will be eligible for permits to cover 66 per cent of carbon costs.

Liquefied natural gas projects will receive 50 per cent assistance. The steel industry will receive $300 million in assistance to encourage investment and innovation to assist in the transformation to a low-carbon economy.

The coal sector will receive a $1.3 billion package to support jobs during the move to clean energy.

The government said most small businesses will not be materially affected by the carbon price, but will benefit from an extension in the small business instant asset write-off threshold to $6500.
And landholders will also see some financial benefits.
Farmers to reap $1bn windfall
The Australian, July 10.

FARMERS who plant trees and store carbon in their soil will share in $1 billion in carbon tax receipts under the package to be unveiled tomorrow.

Canberra will recruit country Australia to its cause by buying credits from landholders who make carbon savings or allowing them to sell those credits to polluters to cover their carbon bills.

It will also reinvest carbon tax revenue in land research and management programs, including funding for outreach officers and training for farmers who want to take part in the scheme.

Greens deputy leader Christine Milne yesterday said the deal struck by her party would end the "political interference" at cabinet and ministerial level in renewable energy funding programs.

"We're going to see now real support, consistent secure support for research and development, and demonstration and commercialisation projects," she said.

Mr Oakeshott said the latest bargain with the government offered landholders "significantly more" than was on the table under Labor's earlier carbon pollution reduction scheme.
Which should help prevent some farmers from joining or voting for silly front groups like The Climate Skeptics2, who also seem to want to revive the "Tilt Australia" campaign.

[UPDATE]
It only took a few hours.
Tony Abbott slams 'veiled socialism'
TONY Abbott has accused Julia Gillard of using her carbon tax plan as a cover for a redistribution of wealth, savaging the new policy as "socialism masquerading as environmentalism".

The Opposition Leader also insisted the package would cost jobs, demanding the Prime Minister visit factory floors and mines to face workers whose jobs he said she had put at risk.

"We're against this," Mr Abbott said. "This is a bad tax. It can't be fixed. It has to be fought."
SURELY Tony Abbott didn't mean to let his Climate Change Denial Disorder (CCDD)come to the fore, again ... he needs to be prescribed some RealityneTM.
Mr Abbott said. "This is a bad tax based on a lie."

Meanwhile, elsewhere in The Australian, others are looking to the business upside.

Biggest single investment ever made in renewable energy

The Australian, July 11, 2011

The Clean Energy Finance Corporation will start operating in 2013-14 with more than double the seed capital of its overseas counterpart, Britain's $4.5bn Green Investment Bank.

And green power projects -- excluding nuclear, biofuels from native forest woodwaste, and carbon capture and storage -- will take up at least half the fund's capital, after lobbying by the Greens.

Greens deputy leader Christine Milne said the dedicated funding represented the biggest single investment in renewable energy Australia has ever made.

"With a legislatively guaranteed stream of funding outside the budget, no future government will be able to undermine it without changing the legislation," she said.

The fund, which will be independent of government and run by a board of banking, investment management, clean energy and technology experts, aims to partner with business to maximise investment in the sector.

The government believes $20bn will be spent on renewable energy projects in Australia in the next decade and $100bn by 2050. "Treasury modelling shows that with a carbon price, energy from the renewables sector is projected to account for around 40 per cent of our electricity generation by 2050, a significant increase from its current level of around 10 per cent," it said yesterday.

Professor McKibbin was concerned by the scale of the package's subsidies for renewables.

"We know from the Productivity Comission report that that is a very high cost way of reducing carbon per unit . . . it has to be done in a way that is very carefully managed," he said.

"I would prefer that the carbon price system itself generates enough incentives."



1. Bernie Fraser achieved some celebrity in Australia for his role in promoting superannuation funds with the tag line "It's the super of the future", uttered in a distinctive monotone.
2. I've already linked to The Australian, I refuse to have links to two sites from the dark side in one post ;-).